@benpate @GavinChait I think this is a lovely example for us to work through, but it does feel different than Ben's original point. The original point was, what can I know StrangerA? It was fairly lightweight. It was just like, oh, I know the three people that claim they know StrangerA. That is genuinely helpful.

However attestation feels like it's entering whole other domain. I'm not against it, but it feels like a V2 of the protocol. Does that make sense? I generally prefer walking before running...

@ramsey @GavinChait @benpate @tchambers
I agree with your concerns. This is what I meant by the complexity issue in a previous thread. It *is* YAF (yet another feature) and if we're not careful, people just a) won't get it or b) not be bothered.

But need is clear. Follows and likes aren't enough. This is a public connection *between* two people. That is its difference. It's power comes from the "rel=me" aspect of both people agreeing. That appears powerful. It is a stronger signal to to build a web of trust, feels decentralized, durable, and seemingly unspoofable (I hope?).

But we really do have to keep it simple. Maybe we call it something else? But I'm hearing the concern that you feel it's not actually that valuable? Do I have that right?

@scottjenson @ramsey @benpate @tchambers I think it's more "how do you intend for this to be used?" than whether important or not. I never use likes, but some people prefer them. The affordance isn't a problem. More that we don't overclaim what it can be used for.

@GavinChait
I started to sketch a couple of designs and quickly ran into some serious questions that might be helpful for us to discuss here. Let's start with a simple one. What do we show the user? Do we show them a number between zero and one?

There's a lot of magic here, and if we're not careful, we'll make it far too complex to the user. I'm leaning towards a simple three icon approach: low (some type of endorsement) medium (good endorsement) and high (exceptionally strong). There can also be NO icon at all.

I don't think someone cares if someone is 67% endorsed versus 78% endorsed.

I also think that endorsements are going to be somewhat rare (at least at first) so the chances of this icons showing up AT ALL is quite low. I'm playing with the idea that your followers endorsements act as a weak signal (low). This provides a 'gateway scoring' system that gets people exposed without initiallying having any endorsements of their own.

Thoughts?

@ramsey @benpate @tchambers

@scottjenson @GavinChait @benpate @tchambers What is low/med/high a calculation of? IOW, when someone endorses you, is it like favoriting them, thumbs up or thumbs down (i.e., “down” de-ranks them), or a rating system (e.g., 1-5 stars)?

I could see how thumbs up/down or ratings can lead to low/med/high scores, but just a simple “I endorse” toggle won’t have much signal, unless it’s treated as a percentage against followers or some kind of static thresholds (e.g., <25 is low, <100 is med, etc.).

@scottjenson @GavinChait @benpate @tchambers What happens to your endorsements or to those you endorsed when you move servers?

There’s enough issues here that Mastodon is starting to break down as a communication tool. We may need to move this over to code edge issues soon.

But, I’d expect a proper LOLA data migration would move endorsements as easily as any other records. Encryption keys may be a complicating factor, but that’s something to hash out on Codeberg.

@ramsey @scottjenson @GavinChait @tchambers

Oohh! I *love* kicking the can down the road. Let’s do that!! 🤩🤩🤩

@julian @ramsey @scottjenson @GavinChait

@ramsey
Two separate issues:
1. moving servers (happy to discuss that in another thread)
2. What is an endorsement?
I'd like to keep to that topic for now. My understanding of Ben's proposal (please correct if I'm wrong:
* It's a TWO way bridge, e.g. I have to endorse and you have accept
* At a core level, that's it, just a series of two-way connections
* But the question is "what do we do with these connections?
* I'm suggesting that it's more helpful in aggregate (I think Ben agrees)
* So the real question is how do we rollup these various signals and present them to the user? When I see your avatar on a post or reply, what do I see that gives me confidence you are a trusted person? 3 people I know endorse you? etc...

@GavinChait @benpate @tchambers