So how should Opt-in work with R2R?
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@teohhanhui that's a much more fundamental conversation that would be nice to have but may not make sense in the case where relays are desired as is occurring with what happened recently.
I don't disagree and it's the final victory I'd like to see as described by @ifixcoinops 's parable. but we don't have that structure yet in the fediverse except with pocket/solo instances or activitypods.
> pocket/solo instances
But those are exactly the ones that need relays the most with the current topology of the Fediverse. So that's not really what I meant at all when I said servers shouldn't exist. Not to mention it's also too much of a technical / financial hurdle if people have to self-host instead of everything just being p2p.
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> pocket/solo instances
But those are exactly the ones that need relays the most with the current topology of the Fediverse. So that's not really what I meant at all when I said servers shouldn't exist. Not to mention it's also too much of a technical / financial hurdle if people have to self-host instead of everything just being p2p.
@teohhanhui What did you mean when you said *servers* should not exist?
on them needing relays the most, it depends on your goal. As said, the parable is neat. -
@teohhanhui What did you mean when you said *servers* should not exist?
on them needing relays the most, it depends on your goal. As said, the parable is neat.@OliviaVespera Something like, Fediverse as p2p gossip swarm(s)?
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@OliviaVespera Something like, Fediverse as p2p gossip swarm(s)?
@teohhanhui Can you describe it for me fully? I'm not familiar. And is it doable with ActivityPub or are we going much more fundamental?
Is there an example of a service/solution/software you're thinking of that exist you can share that would help me understand what you mean? -
@teohhanhui Can you describe it for me fully? I'm not familiar. And is it doable with ActivityPub or are we going much more fundamental?
Is there an example of a service/solution/software you're thinking of that exist you can share that would help me understand what you mean?@OliviaVespera Hmm I guess the closest analog would be BitTorrent. And in fact such a p2p Fediverse is very likely to reuse some of the technologies already successfully used by BitTorrent for a few decades, e.g. distributed hash table (DHT).
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@OliviaVespera Hmm I guess the closest analog would be BitTorrent. And in fact such a p2p Fediverse is very likely to reuse some of the technologies already successfully used by BitTorrent for a few decades, e.g. distributed hash table (DHT).
@teohhanhui it just sounds like single or pocket instances to me, as they're pretty much peer to peer. and you're looking at technologiees outside of ActivityPub.
I'm not sold on anything that does not use ActivityPub in some measure. It's already been a struggle to build ActivityPub. I'm not really ready to unravel that protocol, except to augment it in the way ActivityPods suggests.
it does sound similar to the parable I pointed to.
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but it's not an actor -> bot connection.
It's an actor -> server -> relay -> secondary relay connection.
unless relays as they currently exist need to be fundamentally changed, they are currently opt-in as the instance level.
This is true. I'm also for opt in, but this is server admin level so we must trust our server admins. So I agree that this is a R2R issue that needs to be solved on that level.
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@teohhanhui it just sounds like single or pocket instances to me, as they're pretty much peer to peer. and you're looking at technologiees outside of ActivityPub.
I'm not sold on anything that does not use ActivityPub in some measure. It's already been a struggle to build ActivityPub. I'm not really ready to unravel that protocol, except to augment it in the way ActivityPods suggests.
it does sound similar to the parable I pointed to.
@OliviaVespera I'm out of my depth.
But if you're interested you can look into:
* https://codeberg.org/spritely/ocappub
* https://codeberg.org/spritely/golem -
@OliviaVespera I'm out of my depth.
But if you're interested you can look into:
* https://codeberg.org/spritely/ocappub
* https://codeberg.org/spritely/golem@teohhanhui @cwebber is doing such good work ^^
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The problem of course as always is there's no way of enforcing bad actors from creating evil relays that pretend to be human accounts. But that's always been the case.
@oliviavespera@spacey.space why does a secondary relay need explicit permission from the source instance to have their content relayed?
If the source content is public then there's no discussion to be had, there are no grey areas, the post is public.
It sounds like you're trying to add in layers of privacy to a visibility scheme ("public") that does not have any.
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