<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">This is the discussion thread for the draft FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection</p>
<p dir="auto">&gt; This FEP introduces a mechanism for discovering the administrators of an ActivityPub instance. It extends the "Group Moderator" pattern from [FEP 1b12][1b12] and the "Application Actor" concept from [FEP 2677][2677] by defining an <code>OrderedCollection</code> of administrators referenced from the instance's application actor.</p>
<p dir="auto"><a href="https://codeberg.org/devnull/feps/src/branch/instance-admins/fep/baf5/fep-baf5.md" rel="nofollow ugc">The full draft can be read here</a>.</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/topic/68c3db34-3cc5-4870-a02c-4ae2715b9a3c/fep-baf5-administrator-collection</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Mon, 25 May 2026 01:51:44 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://fedi.wiki/topic/68c3db34-3cc5-4870-a02c-4ae2715b9a3c.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 15:48:55 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 07:21:02 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My understanding from a reading of the relevant section from fe34 suggests a claim of A → B is reciprocal if there is an inverse claim B → A.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, and in my understanding these claims are:</p><p>- This actor is authorized to delete/update this object.<br />- This object is hosted on the server where this actor is an administrator.</p><p>But I don't insist on importing this concept.</p><blockquote><p>I would want to point out that keeping with prior art has the benefit of making this FEP much easier to adopt by threadiverse implementors.</p></blockquote><p>I consider myself a threadiverse implementer too, and I don't really like the idea of dealing with ambiguous properties <img src="https://fedi.wiki/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f642.png?v=cfc437c8754" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--slightly_smiling_face" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title=":)" alt="🙂" /></p><p>At the very least, could you add <code>inbox</code> and <code>outbox</code> properties to the Application actor example? <a href="https://codeberg.org/devnull/feps/src/branch/instance-admins/fep/baf5/fep-baf5.md#instance-actor-and-application-actor" rel="noopener">https://codeberg.org/devnull/feps/src/branch/instance-admins/fep/baf5/fep-baf5.md#instance-actor-and-application-actor</a></p>]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e53b5-78fd-7c12-a6a5-e43c55dfd51e</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e53b5-78fd-7c12-a6a5-e43c55dfd51e</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[silverpill@mitra.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 07:21:02 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 03:36:55 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<span><a href="/user/silverpill%40mitra.social">@silverpill@mitra.social</a></span> <span><a href="/user/julian%40activitypub.space">@julian@activitypub.space</a></span> <a class="plugin-mentions-category plugin-mentions-a" href="/category/technical-discussion@activitypub.space" aria-label="Profile: technical-discussion@activitypub.space">@<bdi>technical-discussion@activitypub.space</bdi></a><br /><br />I agree with Silverpill 'attributedTo' should not be overloaded by this extra meaning<br />]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://swarm.coiloptic.org/brettm/p/1779507415.381040</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://swarm.coiloptic.org/brettm/p/1779507415.381040</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 03:36:55 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 02:52:06 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">&gt; <a href="/user/julian%40activitypub.space">@julian</a> <a href="https://activitypub.space/post/1948" rel="nofollow ugc">said</a>:<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; * I have to be careful when I use the term "authorization" because if I say it three times <a href="/user/thisismissem%40activitypub.space">@thisismissem</a> will show up and start talking about OAuth2/OIDC again.</p>
<p dir="auto">Correction: it's just a single mention that makes me appear, people tend to confuse me with a genie but we're quite different.</p>
<p dir="auto">(Also I saw other replies here but had an MCAS attack hangover today so didn't have energy to reply. I'll try to reply soon)</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1950</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1950</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[thisismissem@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 02:52:06 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 01:11:05 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">&gt; <a href="https://activitypub.space/user/silverpill%40mitra.social" rel="nofollow ugc">@silverpill@mitra.social</a> <a href="https://activitypub.space/post/https%3A%2F%2Fmitra.social%2Fobjects%2F019e51cb-642e-7b62-8843-4b972bf7c646" rel="nofollow ugc">said</a>:<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; 4. The entire problem of non-same-actor updates and deletes can be avoided by using different activities. For example, Update can be replaced with an annotation activity. Delete can be replaced with Remove (from thread).</p>
<p dir="auto">While true, this is outside the scope of the FEP. <code>Update</code>/<code>Delete</code> were mentioned in the FEP as they are recognizable, but this sort of explicit authorization* is relevant to any activity type. <code>Offer</code>, <code>Undo</code>, <code>Bite</code>, <code>Zooboomafoo</code>, etc.</p>
<p dir="auto">* I have to be careful when I use the term "authorization" because if I say it three times <a href="/user/thisismissem%40activitypub.space">@thisismissem</a> will show up and start talking about OAuth2/OIDC again.</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1948</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1948</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[julian@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 01:11:05 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 01:07:28 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">&gt; <a href="https://activitypub.space/user/silverpill%40mitra.social" rel="nofollow ugc">@silverpill@mitra.social</a> <a href="https://activitypub.space/post/https%3A%2F%2Fmitra.social%2Fobjects%2F019e51f1-c72a-7a21-a16e-b844d13c1094" rel="nofollow ugc">said</a>:<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; Extends" is fine, I just think you're describing a reciprocal claim from FEP-fe34, so you could use that term (or maybe FEP-fe34 needs to be updated if "reciprocal claim" is not a good name for this mechanism?)</p>
<p dir="auto">I don't know if this is truly a reciprocal claim. My understanding from a reading of the relevant section from fe34 suggests a claim of A → B is reciprocal if there is an inverse claim B → A.</p>
<p dir="auto"><code>fe34</code> solidifies the concept of same-origin trust (which iirc is only something like a line or two in AP spec?). baf5 builds upon that with an additional opt-in specificity. So <code>baf5</code> assumes <code>fe34</code> compatibility, but not the inverse. But we're splitting hairs I think &lt;img class="not-responsive emoji" src="<a href="https://activitypub.space/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f604.png?v=f187f9278b7" rel="nofollow ugc">https://activitypub.space/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f604.png?v=f187f9278b7</a>" title="<img src="https://fedi.wiki/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f604.png?v=cfc437c8754" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--smile" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title=":smile:" alt="😄" />" /&gt;</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1947</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1947</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[julian@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 01:07:28 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Sat, 23 May 2026 01:01:50 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">The reason why <code>attributedTo</code> was chosen is because there is prior art to using that property to represent a collection of moderators. You could make the same argument against 1b12 (that <code>moderators</code> should be the key instead of <code>attributedTo</code>), too.</p>
<p dir="auto">The argument as to whether a custom property <em>fits</em> better is certainly valid, and worth debating. However, I would want to point out that keeping with prior art has the benefit of making this FEP <strong>much easier to adopt</strong> by threadiverse implementors.</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1946</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1946</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[julian@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2026 01:01:50 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Fri, 22 May 2026 23:07:40 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wasn't aware this was a problem? Figured the redirects would be okay.</p></blockquote><p>The canonical location of a FEP is on Codeberg, but no, it is not a problem.</p><blockquote><p>#2 I suppose supercedes is the incorrect term. It extends fe34, in a way. Would that be acceptable? Definitely not meaning to imply that fe34 is insufficient in any way.</p></blockquote><p>"Extends" is fine, I just think you're describing a reciprocal claim from FEP-fe34, so you could use that term (or maybe FEP-fe34 needs to be updated if "reciprocal claim" is not a good name for this mechanism?)</p>]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e51f1-c72a-7a21-a16e-b844d13c1094</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e51f1-c72a-7a21-a16e-b844d13c1094</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[silverpill@mitra.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 23:07:40 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Fri, 22 May 2026 22:45:05 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">&gt; <a href="https://activitypub.space/user/silverpill%40mitra.social" rel="nofollow ugc">@silverpill@mitra.social</a> <a href="https://activitypub.space/post/https%3A%2F%2Fmitra.social%2Fobjects%2F019e51cb-642e-7b62-8843-4b972bf7c646" rel="nofollow ugc">said</a>:<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; You say that your FEP supersedes the same-origin assumption described in FEP-fe34, but I think it describes a reciprocal claim, also described in FEP-fe34: <a href="https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/fe34/fep-fe34.md#reciprocal-claims" rel="nofollow ugc">https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/fe34/fep-fe34.md#reciprocal-claims</a>. I suggest clarifying which aspect of FEP-fe34 is being superseded.</p>
<p dir="auto">I suppose <em>supercedes</em> is the incorrect term. It extends fe34, in a way. Would that be acceptable? Definitely not meaning to imply that fe34 is insufficient in any way.</p>
<p dir="auto">#3 &lt;img class="not-responsive emoji" src="<a href="https://activitypub.space/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/2714.png?v=f187f9278b7" rel="nofollow ugc">https://activitypub.space/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/2714.png?v=f187f9278b7</a>" title="<img src="https://fedi.wiki/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/2714.png?v=cfc437c8754" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--heavy_check_mark" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title=":heavy_check_mark:" alt="✔" />" /&gt; okay</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1945</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1945</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[julian@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 22:45:05 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Fri, 22 May 2026 22:43:35 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">&gt; <a href="https://activitypub.space/user/silverpill%40mitra.social" rel="nofollow ugc">@silverpill@mitra.social</a> <a href="https://activitypub.space/post/https%3A%2F%2Fmitra.social%2Fobjects%2F019e51cb-642e-7b62-8843-4b972bf7c646" rel="nofollow ugc">said</a>:<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; 5. FEP links lead to <a href="http://w3id.org" rel="nofollow ugc">w3id.org</a> site, not directly to FEPs.</p>
<p dir="auto">Wasn't aware this was a problem? Figured the redirects would be okay.</p>
]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1944</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://activitypub.space/post/1944</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[julian@activitypub.space]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 22:43:35 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to FEP-baf5: Administrator Collection on Fri, 22 May 2026 22:25:44 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p>1.  I find the use of <code>attributedTo</code> here confusing, because normally this property is used to indicate who owns an object or a collection, and its value is an actor. I am aware that <code>attributedTo</code> is used in a similar way in FEP-1b12, but it would be better to introduce a new property (<code>administrators</code>) instead of continuing to abuse <code>attributedTo</code>.<br />2.  You say that your FEP supersedes the same-origin assumption described in FEP-fe34, but I think it describes a reciprocal claim, also described in FEP-fe34: <a href="https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/fe34/fep-fe34.md#reciprocal-claims" rel="noopener">https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/fe34/fep-fe34.md#reciprocal-claims</a>. I suggest clarifying which aspect of FEP-fe34 is being superseded.<br />3.  In the section "Security and Authorization" you say "authenticity" but what actually is being verified is a <strong>permission</strong>.<br />4.  The entire problem of non-same-actor updates and deletes can be avoided by using different activities. For example, <code>Update</code> can be replaced with an annotation activity. <code>Delete</code> can be replaced with <code>Remove</code> (from thread).<br />5.  FEP links lead to w3id.org site, not directly to FEPs.</p>]]></description><link>https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e51cb-642e-7b62-8843-4b972bf7c646</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://fedi.wiki/post/https://mitra.social/objects/019e51cb-642e-7b62-8843-4b972bf7c646</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[silverpill@mitra.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2026 22:25:44 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>